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 KFWDT group project

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mamoo

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PostSubject: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:18 am

Since we've all kind of been doing random stuff rather than an organised mod, I think it would be good if we all clubbed together to do a really good mod, with all new maps, weapons, gameplay functionality and enemies. Anyone feel free to throw down an idea or two, but here's what I thought we could do:

The Last Stand mod:

I'm sure some of you have played the flash game 'The Last Stand', if you haven't you should try it. Link: http://armorgames.com/play/269/the-last-stand

Anywho, for KF some functionality won't work, things we can omit are:

Day/night transition
Dogs
Armoured zombies

Instead of having the daytime to search for weapons and repair the barricade, we could have extended trader time (minus the trader), or could have the barricade repair periodically if we choose to have an endless stream of zombies (yes it has been done before). In the latter scenario, it would be up to the players to delegate who will stay and guard the base, and who will go into the adjacent town to look for weapons. You cannot choose to let the zombies past the barricade and defend the town, because if they reach a certain point just behind the barricade, the game is over.

Mod components:

Zombies:

In keeping with the original game, the zombies will be humans, for the zombies I propose we use, look to this thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=43528

The zombies will approach from a single direction, which is an open plain, the plain is much larger than the zombie alley for scenery purposes, and there is a forest at the edge of it. The zombies cannot go around or over the barricade, and they must break it down to get through. Once through, they will attack nearby players, their attacks are a one-hit kill in keeping with the flash game. The zombies will be reasonably hard to kill, so that we don't need lots on the screen to give the game enough difficulty.

Weapons:

Weapons image: http://sunrisecodeworks.com/TheLastStand03.jpg

I would like to see all the weapons from the game modelled and animated, but failing that, we can use the weapons from KF. The weapons are:

Starter pistol: This is the pistol all players will start off with, this is NOT the pistol the player starts with in the game, it is the pistols given to allied survivors.

Glock: This is the pistol the player starts off with in-game, it will be the most common weapon found in the town. If we decide to use the KF weapons, this will be a 9mm.

Revolver: Powerful pistol, small clip, long reload. The official counterpart is the Handcannon.

Chainsaw: It's a chainsaw, it will be more balanced than the KF version. KF counterpart is the Chainsaw (derp).

UMP-45: First automatic weapon; respectable damage, but a menial rate of fire. KF counterpart is the Bullpup.

Uzi: Slightly lower damage than the UMP-45, but a much faster rate of fire. KF counterpart is the MP7m.

Shotgun: Not much to say about this one, same spread as KF shotgun, I'd quite like to do away with the tracer rounds though. KF counterpart is the Shotgun.

Sawn-off shotgun: More dedicated than the Hunting Shotgun, it has insane spread but totally wastes anything at point blank range. KF counterpart is the Hunting Shotgun.

Hunting Rifle: Single-shot, bolt action scoped rifle, can inflict some serious damage in the hands of a good aimer. KF counterpart is the Lever Action Rifle.

M4: Good damage and good rate of fire make this a fine weapon. KF counterpart is the SCAR.

AK-47: Awesome damage, but low accuracy and rate of fire mean that this rifle is more suited to the zombies that are getting a bit too close for comfort. KF counterpart is the AK-47.

Barrett .50 cal: The least common weapon in the game, bolt action rifle with a magazine. Also has a scope. KF counterpart is the Crossbow.


Maps:

I am more than happy to do the two areas (combat area and town) of the game, unless anyone wants to have a go at it themselves.
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Trololololololololololo

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:25 am

I support this idea, but:

Basicly, thats recreating the flash game into KF, i think we should stay original indeed but inovating at same time.

That means, using the same concept, but all new "everything", but honestly sticking with KF actual monsters, changing these will probably be too much work, also no other games have this kind of monster, survival, but many others have regular zombies.

What the logic tell us to do is to change only whats really necessary, means the least possible, that would give us the most chances of actually getting the whole thing fully done, of course we all want to change a fukload of stuff to our own taste, that will lead to confrontation, frustration, and people will move on and the idea will die along with the game, period.

-Personnaly, i would like to keep it simple, IF i could i would make my own 'game' on top of what we allready have in KF, one great example i enjoy, is this very old and unknown, swat3 italian mod, http://rotd.xoom.it/rotd/ if you ever seen the Romero's original undead movie "Night of the Living Dead" well that would be the start of the game, and everything would be realistic as possible, extremely realistic, that means, be able to make barricades, need to search for food with time-limited supplys (but nothing annoying), be able to blow a door or anything else with a gun, etc, since the whole thing would be limited to that house scenario, it wouldnt get much complex to make anyway.

But, back on topic, we must allow the community to vote until we get to a conclusion that everyone agrees, and this will take time, my vote goes to adding as many custom weapons as we can!


Last edited by Trololololololololololo on Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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9_6



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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:42 am

How about no.
I've not yet seen a finished weapon mutator.
The highest priority should be to actually get something done now imo.
Loading the plate sky-high with new stuff to do doesn't help with that and you already have a ridiculous task list.
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Trololololololololololo

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:47 am

9_6 wrote:
How about no.
I've not yet seen a finished weapon mutator.
The highest priority should be to actually get something done now imo.
Loading the plate sky-high with new stuff to do doesn't help with that.

Maybe some day KFWDT evolves to something like KFMODTEAM, this is a concept ideas thread rather than anything else, of course im talking about years from now ok?

When Gibby see this thread he will freak out lol, lets stick with the guns people! theres not a single work done yet.
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:08 am

I like that last stand game a lot! And It would be really great if we could someday make a total conversion mod or an expansion.

BUT

9_6 is right.

We haven't finished anything so far. At all. Prodigy is on holiday and for some reason working on an auto-coder all of a sudden, I've been busy for the last two weeks with exams and John isn't really doing anything with KFWDT right now--rather, he's doing the Zombies mutator and a couple of other things.

I've spoke to Ricardo and he says that we're currently on the brink of an overflow of modellers, all of which are serious about the project but the coders and animators aren't.

Everyone's gotta sort themselves out.

PS: We've also gotta HURRY UP. TWI are in the work of an update right now, if you see the news. ("Do i smell something burning?" thread on TWI forums general discussion)

We gotta get that MAC in-game, make the final fixes on the PPSh-41 and get Ricardo to start those sawn-off shotguns, maybe? in the meantime I will apply finishing touches to the shotgun models I have.

If we get as much as possible done before the summer update, we get a break and we can work on KFWDT stuff at a slower, more relaxed pace and we can prepare for, say... a christmas update?

And PRODIGY, if you're reading this, Ricardo and I have discussed your autocoder. Everytime we open it, our anti-virus software obliterates it. We can't help but suspect that your autocoder is infected with something. What and why, we don't care. If TWI get infected by something you, as a KFWDT member has made... No more KFWDT.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:47 pm

(MOD)C_Gibby wrote:
I like that last stand game a lot! And It would be really great if we could someday make a total conversion mod or an expansion.

BUT

9_6 is right.

We haven't finished anything so far. At all. Prodigy is on holiday and for some reason working on an auto-coder all of a sudden, I've been busy for the last two weeks with exams and John isn't really doing anything with KFWDT right now--rather, he's doing the Zombies mutator and a couple of other things.

I've spoke to Ricardo and he says that we're currently on the brink of an overflow of modellers, all of which are serious about the project but the coders and animators aren't.

Everyone's gotta sort themselves out.

PS: We've also gotta HURRY UP. TWI are in the work of an update right now, if you see the news. ("Do i smell something burning?" thread on TWI forums general discussion)

We gotta get that MAC in-game, make the final fixes on the PPSh-41 and get Ricardo to start those sawn-off shotguns, maybe? in the meantime I will apply finishing touches to the shotgun models I have.

If we get as much as possible done before the summer update, we get a break and we can work on KFWDT stuff at a slower, more relaxed pace and we can prepare for, say... a christmas update?

And PRODIGY, if you're reading this, Ricardo and I have discussed your autocoder. Everytime we open it, our anti-virus software obliterates it. We can't help but suspect that your autocoder is infected with something. What and why, we don't care. If TWI get infected by something you, as a KFWDT member has made... No more KFWDT.



This ,

We shouldnt bite more than we can chew , GET THINGS FINISHED ! GET THEM TO THE GAME ! AND THEEEEN , WE DO MORE STUFF !
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:58 pm

Anyway, Ricardo

Yep, that's right. We have bitten off more than we can chew. A lot of models are done and awaiting textures. And THEN we need to get the animation sorted and THEN we get it in-game.

The biggest thing I could ask for is for the people who are currently non-contributors start looking at tutorials on coding and animation and possibly modelling. We have so few coders, texturers and animators so any additional hands would be greatly appreciated.

Here's what we gotta do now, IMO:

  • PPSh-41
  • MAC-11
  • Flare Gun
  • Sawn-off shotguns (beretta silver pigeons)


THEN AFTER THAT (What I propose, anyway...)


  • Weapons used by british forces, modern and historical
  • The WIP models (Don't go starting anymore! Evil or Very Mad )


THEN AFTER THAT


  • Everything that we have planned already in the ideas section, after we draw around all the balance issues.
  • Any other things we could dream up.


This whole thing could take a year. The current "pack" will take a month. Everyone does their part and that will make people have a week of work each. It does sound like a heavy workload, but as a modeller, I only worked for one week. I'm still waiting on coders and animators. Really, we're more than half-done for the first pack. This will really go a lot quicker than you think it will.
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mamoo

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:32 pm

(MOD)C_Gibby wrote:


  • Weapons used by british forces, modern and historical
  • The WIP models (Don't go starting anymore! Evil or Very Mad )


I could begin to model some British weapons; the G3, the AWM, Sig P226 ans Browning Hi-Power spring to mind.
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:35 pm

mamoo wrote:
(MOD)C_Gibby wrote:


  • Weapons used by british forces, modern and historical
  • The WIP models (Don't go starting anymore! Evil or Very Mad )


I could begin to model some British weapons; the G3, the AWM, Sig P226 ans Browning Hi-Power spring to mind.

Well please don't forget about Sterling. Sad

Ironically, the bullpup, sterling and AWM will be the only fully-british weapons.
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NOD



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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:48 pm

mamoo wrote:
(MOD)C_Gibby wrote:


  • Weapons used by british forces, modern and historical
  • The WIP models (Don't go starting anymore! Evil or Very Mad )


I could begin to model some British weapons; the G3, the AWM, Sig P226 ans Browning Hi-Power spring to mind.

Last I checked, the G3 was a German assault rifle, that is if you are referring to the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DCB_Shooting_G3_pictures.jpg
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Trololololololololololo

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:09 pm

Re-writing what i said in my very first post, if we had a step-by-step weapon making tutorial everybody could be working in all areas and we probably had 3 weapons fully done by now, but thats really not our case.

I dont have much spare time to just go alone randomly researching and learning all this by myself, with no probability of success, but its always like this in every community i have seen, the few dudes that actually knows how-to, wont teach, because they want to be treated special, most tell excuses saying they wont do this and that because the game developers would not like such mods, but that wont stop them from doing their own crap and release them as well, while everyone praises them as kings.

Without the how-to and tutorials this community will eventually go downhill sooner or later.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:16 pm

That's exactly what the autocoder was meant for.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:18 pm

Mamoo, there is already a laststand map for KF, and it is whitelisted.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:06 am

Trololololololololololo wrote:
Re-writing what i said in my very first post, if we had a step-by-step weapon making tutorial everybody could be working in all areas and we probably had 3 weapons fully done by now, but thats really not our case.

I dont have much spare time to just go alone randomly researching and learning all this by myself, with no probability of success, but its always like this in every community i have seen, the few dudes that actually knows how-to, wont teach, because they want to be treated special, most tell excuses saying they wont do this and that because the game developers would not like such mods, but that wont stop them from doing their own crap and release them as well, while everyone praises them as kings.

Without the how-to and tutorials this community will eventually go downhill sooner or later.

Well yes, I agree with you.

I can't get any decent straightforward tutorials on Killing Floor modding. I have no Idea how to do anything for the game. All I can do is model. And to learn to model, I just learnt what button does what on a 3d-modelling program and just let my imagination take me, using the knowledge of the interface controls. I'm still not a perfect modeller and I have a lot of learning to do myself.

Perhaps I should make animations for my own weapons in Blender? But then again, how do I get these animations put into KF?

No-one is around to tell me. If say, John or Sorrow could tell me, I would know by now.
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mamoo

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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:14 am

(MOD)C_Gibby wrote:
But then again, how do I get these animations put into KF?

No-one is around to tell me. If say, John or Sorrow could tell me, I would know by now.

I think you have to export them as .ase files and then convert them to .uax packages.

Trololololololololololo wrote:

Without the how-to and tutorials this community will eventually go downhill sooner or later.

I guess I could write up a short gun modelling tutorial for Blender.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:19 am

(MOD)C_Gibby wrote:
But then again, how do I get these animations put into KF?

No-one is around to tell me. If say, John or Sorrow could tell me, I would know by now.

I think you have to export them as .ase files and then convert them to .uax packages.

Trololololololololololo wrote:

Without the how-to and tutorials this community will eventually go downhill sooner or later.

I guess I could write up a short gun modelling tutorial for Blender.

EricFong wrote:
Mamoo, there is already a laststand map for KF, and it is whitelisted.

Yeah, but it doesn't really cover many aspects of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:09 am

mamoo wrote:
I guess I could write up a short gun modelling tutorial for Blender.
That's the easiest part.
I mean, I basically started off modeling a week ago.

What I'd need to know is how to set up the animations.
I know that each movable part has to be a separate object for animation but how does it go on from there?
Do I need some sort of specific rigging? A specific bone structure or something?
Do I even need any rigging at all since it's separate objects anyway?
And where do I get those hands you presumably need from?
I know there already is a thread that has them but where did that person giving out the hands get them from in the first place?
I could never get anything out of one of those unreal packages.

Then there's the coding part but I'd be pleased if I just knew how on earth to get the game to just display my model, then how to make it move.
There could be a template mutator to replace just the mesh and animations.
The autocoder thingy could replace a mesh with a custom one so there you go, right?

You can look modeling tutorials up, there's more than enough for them.
The same goes for animation.
However game specific things like that are what there's no tutorial for and it would be beneficial if we all knew the basic process so the modeler can do stuff to make things easier for the animator who in turn can make things easier for the coder etc.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:38 pm

auto coder infection:

use the one from the TWI forums.

the one i gave you guys was a buggy fucked up test beta.

also i think crono is redoing this and it seems to be better.
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ricardo_sousa11



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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:33 am

9_6 wrote:
mamoo wrote:
I guess I could write up a short gun modelling tutorial for Blender.
That's the easiest part.
I mean, I basically started off modeling a week ago.

What I'd need to know is how to set up the animations.
I know that each movable part has to be a separate object for animation but how does it go on from there?
Do I need some sort of specific rigging? A specific bone structure or something?
Do I even need any rigging at all since it's separate objects anyway?
And where do I get those hands you presumably need from?
I know there already is a thread that has them but where did that person giving out the hands get them from in the first place?
I could never get anything out of one of those unreal packages.

Then there's the coding part but I'd be pleased if I just knew how on earth to get the game to just display my model, then how to make it move.
There could be a template mutator to replace just the mesh and animations.
The autocoder thingy could replace a mesh with a custom one so there you go, right?

You can look modeling tutorials up, there's more than enough for them.
The same goes for animation.
However game specific things like that are what there's no tutorial for and it would be beneficial if we all knew the basic process so the modeler can do stuff to make things easier for the animator who in turn can make things easier for the coder etc.

Im not an animator , but i can explain some things.

Yes , movable parts need to be seperate, and all others need to be Attached together and not Grouped.
I dont think its needed to Rig , since when you import , you import the hands as well , and all the movements , so i only think the hands need to be rigged.
You can Download the KFHands on the Tripwire forum , which are rigged , but i think they only work on Maya and Blender , and you can export them from the game , and bring them to you're program of choice. If you choose to export them from the game , be sure to select an animation which may be similar to what you already want.

I cannot help you with the Coding , but when animating you need , an animation for Idle , Fire , Weapon Select , Weapon Unselect , Secondary fire and reload.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:12 am

The blender hands are not rigged.
That's kind of a problem since I don't see any way to export them, the kf SDK simply won't give you an option to extract models/animations unless I'm missing something.
If I could just extract stuff and open it in blender, I could see what it's made of myself.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:02 am

9_6 wrote:
The blender hands are not rigged.
That's kind of a problem since I don't see any way to export them, the kf SDK simply won't give you an option to extract models/animations unless I'm missing something.
If I could just extract stuff and open it in blender, I could see what it's made of myself.


I dont know about Blender , but you can use the Nvidia Plugin ( on 3ds max ) to import animations , textures and others from a game to the 3D software , search for it , animations are .ukx , search for some plugin for Blender that opens .ukx .
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:03 pm

9_6 wrote:
The blender hands are not rigged.
That's kind of a problem since I don't see any way to export them, the kf SDK simply won't give you an option to extract models/animations unless I'm missing something.
If I could just extract stuff and open it in blender, I could see what it's made of myself.

http://www.filefront.com/16824127/KFHands.blend

I've rigged up the KF hand in Blender, no texture though.
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:20 am

Hm, what's the position of the camera so it lines up with the in-game one perfectly?
Also can I add IK chains to make animating easier or does it need to be normal bones only?
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PostSubject: Re: KFWDT group project   Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:19 am

9_6 wrote:

Also can I add IK chains to make animating easier or does it need to be normal bones only?

No idea, I just rigged the arms up with armatures, you may want to redo them since they do fuck about with the model a bit.
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