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 Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5

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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:38 am

Ok, I propose two more weapons we could add to the commando:



M16 - This gun would have damage and price directly inbetween Bullpup and AK. It will be as accurate as the bullpup and hold as many shots as the AK (37 max). It would use a 3-shot burst fire function. It would keep the old-fashioned ironsights.



G36C - This gun holds 30 MAX. Damage and price inbetween AK and SCAR. As accurate as the SCAR with the fire rate of the AK, with an increased reload speed. I would like to discuss the G36C as I am unsure on how it could be implemented.

Also, here is an alternative idea for a G36C model:

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mamoo

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:31 am

Not too sure about the M16, but the G36c would make an excellent addition!
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Trololololololololololo

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:01 am

Man i am kinda sick of M16's and its derivations, theres a lot more interesting stuff out there imo, and i do think the Commando is underpowered, well at least as current, since the Sharpshooter does everything it does much better, and more, unless it was a completely dark map lol.

We got the Sa80, thats the Smg, we Got the Ak, its the 'Machinegun', thats a step further in firepower but loss in every other spec, and then the Scar, its the actual Assault Rifle, thats another step, but in every direction except clip size, (fire rate, firepower, sights, not so much in recoil but oh well)

But what do i hate the most about all of them? The Sharpshooter got the undisputed and amazing headshot bonus, and also firepower bonus, the Sharpshooter doesn't just blow the enemies head like pumpkins but it also has enough firepower to hurt them enough so they wont walk around headless messing everything up, the Commando instead doesn't have either of them, i really think his weapons should gain on penetration instead of firepower, imagine blowing 2 heads with a single shot, would be cool to having a weapon capable of this, as the next step, even if it was more expensive than the Scar and stuff.
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:24 am

Penetration is a Sharpshooter and Support Specialist role. And commando is one of the most powerful perks as-is! (Coming from a level-6 Commando, who plays nothing but commando ) Cool
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Trololololololololololo

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:31 am

Yeah i know it is one of the most powerfull, im a level6 as well, but it was much harder to level up, this strong feel of inferiority comes from playing with the Sharpshooters, wich i am always in big loss, mainly at official maps, dude i cant stand Tripwire anymore what are they thinking, they need to fix this, its ridiculous!

And imho i dont think Sharp should have penetration in first place, it allready has everything, faster reload, added firepower (even for 9mm lmao) and the huge headbonus, imho only Support should have this skill.
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:40 am

That is so true. SS is mainly for large-monster kills at longer ranges in shorter amounts of time, IMO. The Support Spec is for the large groups of smaller ZEDs in a single blast.

Meh, I really don't know how to describe the different perk roles until TWI actually fixees the current balance issues.
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BrPhoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:06 am

So, I came here because C_Gibby asked me to Very Happy

Not sure if I post it here, but probably yes.

For the commando weaponry suggestion:

The FN FAL



It's the most used weapon in the world. Currently in service in Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Mexico, Germany, the UK, the US and a few other countries (some have modified the FAL, like the UK)

Chambered with the popular and powerful 7.62mm NATO round. Usually has a 20-round magazine.

It is longer than the AK-47, so it is a little more accurate. Gas-operated, the barrel's design allows excessive gas from firing to escape, reducing the recoil. This is a lot more noticeable on semi-automatic, since in fully automatic the rifle is unable to dissipate the extra gas.
It is usually used on semi-automatic, despite being fully-automatic-enabled, for two reasons: recoil control and ammo conservation.

Game wise, the weapon would have reduced recoil while on semi-automatic.
It would deal a little more damage than the AK, and have more hip-fire accuracy, but would suffer from the small mag.

Could weight 6 blocks.
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:19 am

Great idea, Mr. Phoenix! Very Happy And welcome, thanks for coming! cheers

Yes, I think the FN-FAL is a great idea. I'll break it down onto how it can be done:

  • Accuacy like the SCAR.
  • Magazine capacity like SCAR.
  • Fire rate like the AK.
  • Little recoil - inbetween AK and Bullpup.
  • Damage directly inbetween AK and SCAR.


Anything you'd like to add/change? bounce
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BrPhoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:22 am

It's more of a question, but... is it possible to have different recoil values according to the weapon firing option? (as in, semi-automatic has little recoil, fully automatic has a LOT of recoil?)
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:28 am

I'm no coder, but I assume that the recoil value can only apply to one shot at a time, and when multiple shots are fired, the recoil seems to add up. Try out the PPSh-41 beta! You'll see how quickly the recoil adds up as you constantly shoot!
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BrPhoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:00 pm

Ok then. Seems fine to me Very Happy
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Trololololololololololo

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:28 pm

C_Gibby wrote:
Great idea, Mr. Phoenix! Very Happy And welcome, thanks for coming! cheers

Yes, I think the FN-FAL is a great idea. I'll break it down onto how it can be done:

  • Accuacy like the SCAR.
  • Magazine capacity like SCAR.
  • Fire rate like the AK.
  • Little recoil - inbetween AK and Bullpup.
  • Damage directly inbetween AK and SCAR.


Anything you'd like to add/change? bounce

Actually, the Fal is the most popular rifle here in Brazil, and it should be like this actualy imho, to be like you said i would choose a rifle that could fit better because this is what anyone would expect of a 7,62 Fal.

  • Accuracy a bit more than the SCAR.
  • Magazine capacity max of 20.
  • Fire rate only semi-auto.
  • Big recoil, more than AK or Scar.
  • Damage more than AK or Scar.


Yeah its very m14'ish, but oh well.
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Prodigy
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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:33 pm

BrPhoenix wrote:
It's more of a question, but... is it possible to have different recoil values according to the weapon firing option? (as in, semi-automatic has little recoil, fully automatic has a LOT of recoil?)

you may not know it, but this is already coded in most weapons.

an example from the ak script:

Code:
// Spread bonus for firing aiming
    if( KFWeap.bAimingRifle )
    {
        AccuracyMod *= 0.5;
    }

    // Small spread bonus for firing crouched
    if( Instigator != none && Instigator.bIsCrouched )
    {
        AccuracyMod *= 0.85;
    }

    // Small spread bonus for firing in semi auto mode
    if( bWaitForRelease )
    {
        AccuracyMod *= 0.85;
    }

so aiming while using the iron sights in semi auto mode while crouched = win
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BrPhoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:23 pm

Admin wrote:
BrPhoenix wrote:
It's more of a question, but... is it possible to have different recoil values according to the weapon firing option? (as in, semi-automatic has little recoil, fully automatic has a LOT of recoil?)

you may not know it, but this is already coded in most weapons.

an example from the ak script:

Code:
// Spread bonus for firing aiming
    if( KFWeap.bAimingRifle )
    {
        AccuracyMod *= 0.5;
    }

    // Small spread bonus for firing crouched
    if( Instigator != none && Instigator.bIsCrouched )
    {
        AccuracyMod *= 0.85;
    }

    // Small spread bonus for firing in semi auto mode
    if( bWaitForRelease )
    {
        AccuracyMod *= 0.85;
    }

so aiming while using the iron sights in semi auto mode while crouched = win

Nice to see that this feature is already implemented Very Happy

@Trololololololololololo

The FAL is capable of full-auto. Though it isn't used very often for reasons I explained on my previous posts.
It should be available, so we'd escape from the "nerfed M14" picture.

It also has little recoil when firing a single bullet, though that recoil stacks brutally on full-auto.
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Trololololololololololo

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:07 pm

Fine, i agree with that IF the rest of the team agree as well.
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Kellervo



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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:40 pm

I actually have a G36e model from a left over Source modification project. If someone's willing to do the scripting (I know UT, but I don't know it inside out / reliably) I can chop it up into a decent G36c quite quickly.

As for Tier 1.5... Galil? Would basically serve as an intermediary between the Bullpup's rate of fire and the AK-47's damage.
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(MOD)C_Gibby

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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:16 pm

Kellervo wrote:
I actually have a G36e model from a left over Source modification project. If someone's willing to do the scripting (I know UT, but I don't know it inside out / reliably) I can chop it up into a decent G36c quite quickly.

As for Tier 1.5... Galil? Would basically serve as an intermediary between the Bullpup's rate of fire and the AK-47's damage.

Galil looks too much like the AK. = boring as hell.
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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:18 pm



Needs a bit more work - for some reason I decided to use an automatic polygon reduction tool instead of doing it manually, so a few obvious holes opened up (front of the handguard, parts of the stock). The shading brings out the ejection port a bit too noticeably, but that only took a couple seconds to fix.

Also lacks picatinny rails, but I can add those in once I've got the a-ok - rather make sure there's enough tris for the body of the weapon, worst comes to 'worst' I have a G36E style scope/handle I can put in its place.
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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:19 am

wowowwow.

looking good! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:29 am

im all for this.

idk how much i would use it though, if it isnt better than the SCAR
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NOD



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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:15 am

Admin wrote:
im all for this.

idk how much i would use it though, if it isnt better than the SCAR

The g36 shoots 223, so in turn, it would have to be weaker than the ak but stronger than the l22a2. Also, since it's not a bullpup varient, recoil would be reduced greatly.
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Kellervo



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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:19 am

Personally, I see the G36 as a Bullpup on roids - high rate of fire (SCAR is 600, iRL the G36 caps at 750-800), accurate, with minimal recoil. Definitely not as strong as the SCAR, not as effective against big enemies, but capable of ripping apart a horde of small enemies in no time, and a mean headshot machine in its own right.
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NOD



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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:28 am

Kellervo wrote:
(SCAR is 600, iRL the G36 caps at 750-800)

I don't know man, I mean the current fire rates for the scar or the bullpup seem pretty decent and balanced. I mean, I don't want another mp7 - assault rifle wise - that just empties rounds like a minigun and I'm not suggesting to use the same exact RoF as the ak, scar, or bullpup, but here check this g36 out, it has a rather similar RoF to the bullpup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ7LTUokI4w
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PostSubject: Re: Commando Tier 1.5 and Tier 2.5   Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:25 am

I'm not sure what the exact measurement for the in-game Bullpup is, but it's only a slight faster then the SCAR in reality. Since the G36 would have roughly, or perhaps just slightly higher damage (AK level at most, any more and it'd end up more powerful then the SCAR), it's main advantage would be in it's rate of fire and low recoil compared to the SCAR's fairly hefty punch. Like the Bullpup it'd be better for crowd control in the hands of an experienced player, and can in a pinch be used for some heavy duty specs - but due to its low damage can't take down a Scrake with the ease of an AK or SCAR.

Or in short, where the SCAR is an upgraded AK, the G36 would be an upgraded Bullpup.

The MP7 in Killing Floor is... well, ridiculously fast (1200+?), so yes, we could just throw the real world performance out the window and make it slower / harder-hitting, whatever's necessary to keep it balanced.
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